Stephen Bolton and Kate Turner on Newstalk – 4th June 2023

Lunchtime live with Andrea Gilligan on News Talk.

Andrea: Do nudist beaches appeal to you? And would you maybe like the option to go to more nude beaches in Ireland? I want to hear your thoughts on this today. It’s a discussion they’re having in the UK at the minute. It’s actually about whether nude sunbathing should even be, illegal. And one naturist caused a bit of a stir this week after appearing naked on Good Morning Britain. So I want to know, do you think we should have more nude beaches in Ireland? Stephen Bolton is a member of the Irish Natureists Association, he’s with us on the line today. Stephen, first of all, how many nudist beaches do we have at the moment here?
Stephen: Every beach is, because it’s not illegal to be naked in public. So as far as it goes, they’re all naturist beaches. It just it depends on, the amount of people that want to do it.
Andrea: So I could head down to Rossnowlagh this weekend and
Stephen: Yeah. It’s not illegal. Yeah. You can do whatever you like.
Andrea: Yeah. So so why aren’t we all on nudist beaches then?
Stephen: Well, it’s safety in numbers as well. So if you have the likes of big town areas like Dublin or Cork, Galway, it’s just it’s more comfortable for people to go. That’s what the whole thing is about. It’s a comfort thing. So if you’re more comfortable in a group, it just makes more sense. So the more people you have, it’s a safety in numbers thing.
Andrea: So at the moment, did you say every beach?
Stephen: Technically.
Andrea: Technically. And and when you say technically, does that mean legally?
Stephen: Yes. It is not illegal to be naked in public as long as you don’t mean to cause, stress or alarm. So that’ll be for the likes of, you know, creeps and whatnot. So as long as your not, you know, intending to do that, then everything’s perfectly legal.
Andrea: But there’s a number of beaches in Ireland though that would be kind of known more so as being Yeah. Nudist beaches. Yeah.
Stephen: So more historically, accepting. Yeah. There’s 100 of them.
Andrea: Why why don’t we why do we not embrace it more, do you think?
Stephen: I don’t know. I think it’s probably got a lot to do with our maybe your Catholic background over the past 100 years.
Andrea: And, I think it’s a little hard to get for that?
Stephen: Well, yeah. Sherpin was a sin. Going to the toilet was a sin. So everything everything was a sin, and it would have been a Victorian thing as well, a hangover from that, where they didn’t seem to have it in in Europe. It didn’t seem to be as, they they weren’t as hung up on it.
Andrea: But it’s much more common, like, across Europe when you’re on holidays.
Stephen: A 100%. Yeah. 100%. I’ve been on so many beaches where they don’t have the hang ups that we do now because they might have better weather as well. So they’d have
Andrea: That’s probably a big part. Well, it is a big part, actually.
Stephen: I would I would say so. Yeah. Because, you know, it it okay. Look. There’s probably hundreds of people out there or thousands of people planning their barbecues this weekend, because, you know, it’s the best chance to do it, you know, and where but that’s rare to have the the sun shining on a bank holiday weekend. It’s rare in Ireland, let’s be honest. And the amount of barbecues that was all planned and had to cancel last minute of the rain. So because they have a more stable, weather system for the past, I don’t know, a couple of years anyway, that they’re they can plan better. They can just do it more easily. They can do it on the way home from work without thinking about it.
Andrea: What is it that you enjoy, Steven, about sunbathing naked?
Stephen: It’s the freedom. It’s the freedom. And it’s the, if you are going for a swim as well, having to wear shorts or bikini or something like that when you get out of the water, these polyester, shorts and outfits that we wear, they take hours to dry off. You feel cold, damp, you might get chafing after a while. But when you do it naked, you’re drying in a minute or 2.
Andrea: What about you, Kate? Kate is on the line as well, Stephen. How often would you go to a nudist beach?
Kate: As often as I can, really. I mean, working 5 days a week and then only really getting the weekends. There’s just so much that I like to do in general. I would do it all naked if possible. Rock climbing, kayaking, all of this kind of outdoorsy stuff. But, I would go as often as I can, and as well to the indoor swims in pools that we rent out.
Andrea: And is that through the the Naturist Association?
Kate: It is.
Andrea: Yeah. There are specific organized visits.
Kate: It is a specific organized visit. Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah.
Andrea: But sell it to me. What is it you enjoy about it?
Kate: Well, like my friend, Steve Bolton, says, it is the freedom, and it’s not having to worry about anything. It means if I’m going away, I don’t have to pack as much. I’ve been to a couple of naturist resorts where I didn’t really have to pack anything. So I had to wear the clothes going over that I was wearing and the clothes going back the same clothes. So I didn’t have to wear that packing or anything like that. It’s the freedom, like you said. And it’s just it’s no judgment. It’s completely nonsexual, and you don’t have to kind of be self conscious because we’re all just bodies at the end of the day. We all have the same bits, and sure we’re all different shapes and sizes. Sure we’re all beautiful.
Andrea: So you think more people should embrace it?
Kate: I think we should. I think that if it became a little bit more mainstream, okay, fine. I’m not saying industries would crumble, but there would be a lot less negativity out there in relation to bodies, in relation to shame, especially Irish shame. But there would be a lot less worry out there as to what your bodies look like as opposed to what they actually do for you on a daily basis. Like, bodies are amazing. They’re wonderful. They’re fantastic. They can do amazing things. Women’s bodies in particular, we can grow a human inside us. Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s just it’s something that should be seen in a better light, in in my opinion. And not as sexualized either.
Andrea: Why isn’t it more mainstream then Steven? No. Going to nude beaches. Like, why wouldn’t more people in Ireland this weekend be heading off to a nudist beach then?
Stephen: Well, like Kate suggested there as well, that there’s, there’s a fear on us. Everyone has this kind of a shame. But I know that once I’ve done it, it’s one of those things you’re kinda nervous at the start as well. You don’t know what you’re gonna expect. You’re worried that people are gonna judge you. But after you do it, it only it’s like it just takes 5 seconds to realize that nobody cares. That you are, like, as Kate said, you are gorgeous, and you’re in the right safe environment for other people to not be judgmental and to not care. You really it everybody thinks to have hung hang ups. Everyone has wobbly bits, everyone has cellulite or bits that they don’t like. But when you see a group of naked people, you forget immediately that they’re naked. It becomes more, just more realistic more than anything. You forget about these Instagram filters and stuff like that. You just see people for what they actually are, and then after about 5 seconds, you realize nobody cares. We’re all gorgeous.
Andrea: Is there a typical case, like, when when you go to, I suppose, the kind of,
Andrea: the so called or the the more known spots across the country here, is there a typical age profile?
Stephen: No. No.
Andrea: Is that any age, is it?
Stephen: Any age. Men, women, boys and girls, 18 to 85. You know, it’s a wide range the last couple of times I was on the beach anyway.
Andrea: Is that your experience, Kate?
Kate: It is my experience.
Andrea: Mixed demographic?
Kate: I’ve seen mixed demographic. Yeah. One thing though I would say is, women are hesitant probably to get into it because they think it’s all just gotta be men and an older age group and older women, but it’s not really. There are lots of people my age. And even when you’re not in a group, when you’re not in the INA, there’s plenty of people around the country that do it anyway. They’re just not involved with the Irish Naturist Association as a whole.
Andrea: Yeah. It’s not it’s not just, as you say, members of the Naturist Association. There’s your point is that there’s others this weekend, plenty of others who’d head off and want to do it in the NIP.
Kate: Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah. What what about you, Owen? Are you a fan of a nudist beach?
Owen: No. I wouldn’t be. I’m not really into exhibitionism or encouraging exhibitionists. What’s neither of those 2 people have mentioned is that the acts, the 1935 act was changed in 2017, which effectively allows anyone walk down Grafton Street in the nude and will not be prosecuted by the DPP. A member of an Garda Síochána might arrest them if someone complains about this person just walking down, fully nude, down Grafton Street. But the DPP won’t prosecute it.
Andrea: This is a condition of exposure or something. But it’s to do, isn’t it? Stephen, there is a, an explanation around that in the sense that it depends on the intent of the person. It’s intimidating or, like
Stephen: Exactly.
Andrea: But I suppose, Eoin, if you’re going to a beach that’s known as a nude, a nude beach or a nudist beach, you couldn’t really make that contention could you that you were?
Owen: No. But that’s not the point if you don’t mind me saying so. The issue is that the classification of a beach as or part of the beach as a nudist beach is no longer valid. It’s mute. All beaches are now naturist beaches. This is the point that is not being said in the program. I mean, can I just
Andrea: Well, Steven made that point at the start, Steven, didn’t you? You made the point that
Stephen: I did. Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah. So well, look, I said I think it was his very open and remark, actually, but
Stephen: It was. Yeah.
Owen: It was. And I didn’t tell him I mean, like, it wasn’t my turn to say it, but what he’s not saying is that the old act quote tried to stop any scandal or injuring the morals of the community. That’s the 1935 act. That’s now gone. There are no morals of the community anymore.
Andrea:Okay.
Owen: So effectively, nudity, if you’re not acting in a sexualized way and if a member of the community does not complain to the Gardai, anyone can walk anywhere nude.
Andrea: Okay now so just can can go on ahead, Steven. You wanted to
Stephen: Well, no. And I agree with Owen there. Like, regarding the, anyone can be naked in public. Yes. That is. It’s not a crime to have a body. How could it possibly be? But within the new legislation in 2017, it’s brought up that you can be naked as long as you’re not causing alarm distress or harm to the, the public, the general public. So that’s, that’s a great, law to have that protects not only the naturists themselves, but it can prosecute the the creeps that are out there that do that as well.
Andrea: Okay. Certainly.
Stephen: It’s a very balanced
Andrea: Just okay. So just to put the act to one side for the moment, the idea of actually just going to a beach and whether there’s 2 people there or 22 people there and just stripping off and going for a swim naked, does it appeal to you then?
Owen: Well, I prefer not to see old people with sort of, your gravity taking effect. I’d try not to be able to to see them. I don’t go to meetings very often. But another aspect that I’d like to just bring up, Steven mentioned 18 to 85. Is this going to be illegal for 12 year olds to be naked on a beach or 8 year olds with their parents? This opens up a hornet’s nest. I mean, who’s the arbiter of what is going to be right or moral or legal? Do do you see what I’m trying to say?
Andrea: Do you want to go on, Steven.
Stephen: No. I’ll chip in on this. Regarding his comment about he doesn’t want to see old people on the beach, you don’t have to go. You don’t have to look.
Owen: Well, I just said i don’t go to the beaches.
Stephen: Well, then, I don’t know
Owen: I was asked about whether I would like to see it.
Andrea: Yeah. Well, I’m just asking you whether whether or not you think it’s something own we should embrace a little bit more. Like, I mean, a lot of the text coming in. I’ll come to them in a moment. But a lot of people making the point that so many Irish will head away, abroad on holidays across Europe over the next couple of weeks. And you tend to see signposts and, you know, areas designated for naked sunbathing, nudist beaches across Europe. But it’s just something we don’t really embrace in Ireland.
Owen: There are there are quite a number of people. They would be called the silent minority, maybe, who don’t go abroad to, you know, to strip into bikinis and naked and everything else. They don’t have passports. They wear jumpers and coats most of the year. So those type of people probably will be offended by wholesale nudity in Stevens Green, let’s say, or on Sandymount Strand because that’s going to happen ultimately in 20 or 30 years’ time. Nudity, full nudity on Sandymount Strand is going to happen because the law was changed in 2017.
Andrea: The text in from a listener who’s here who just makes the point, will you just highlight, yeah, we probably don’t have enough beaches at all to allow, for more nudist beaches. Unfortunately, we don’t have consistent good weather, and I think that is a huge issue by comparison with other countries. No thanks to nude beaches, says this texter. We don’t yet. Again, it’s the weather forecast for us. But if we did have the weather, I still wouldn’t agree with nude beaches. I don’t agree with them at all. Another listener asking, why are we such prudes? Why are we so uncomfortable with the human body? It’s like we’re living in the past. Kate, this texter is wondering if you can name the beaches. I have an interest in naturism. I didn’t realize this was actually nude beaches were so common in Ireland.
Kate: Well, one of the ones that would come to mind, very quickly is Killiney Beach, White Rock, it’s called, or Hawk Cliff a little bit along the coast there as well. I wouldn’t be kind of versed to knowing where else in the country. Maybe Steven could chime in on that. But one of the ones that comes to mind for Dublin and surrounding areas is definitely Killiney Beach, White Rock.
Andrea: What about you, Steven, and the rest of the country?
Stephen: There’s a couple there’s a down in Brittas Bay on the south end of Brittas Bay as well. There’s again, a historically, friendly beach there. In Waterford, I think it’s called Corballis Beach. And Barna, I think it’s called, over in Galway. It’s kind of like a rocky outcrop. So there’s a few beaches, scattered around the country. And again, more information can be found on the Irish Naturist Association website as well regarding, historically friendly beaches.
Andrea: This texter says, I’m absolutely disgusted. I think it’s disgusting the way they’re talking. I’m 75, and it would never occur to me to go nude anywhere. And they’re advocating to walk down Grafton Street naked, says one listener. Pat has got in touch to say, I used to lifeguard around the beaches, across County Galway about 20 odd years ago. But I always threatened to call the guards on old men who used to stand there around the place, around the beaches naked after their swims. Ruffled a lot of feathers. But in my view, it was completely unacceptable, says Pat.
Stephen: Yeah. I don’t know. I’m sorry about that. That people feel that way. There’s if they feel it’s unacceptable, that’s usually people are are carrying hang ups on themselves. You know, how can the naked body be offensive? It’s the way we’re built, the miracle of nature that we’re here.
Andrea: Dominic is with us on the line today. Dominic, do you embrace nudist beaches?
Domenic: Having never been to a nude beach camp that we do have, I actually wasn’t aware that we even had nude beaches in the country. Let alone that technically any beach can be nude. I was quite frightened about it, actually.
Andrea: I’m just going to reconnect connect with you, Dominic. I just wanted to get try and get a better line there. Just hang on for a second, if you don’t mind. Breid is with us too here on the show today. Breid, are nude beaches for you?
Breid: No. Not for me. Definitely not. But I’m thinking about it now, and I’m going to get all my suntan on, all my bits and pieces, and I put my coat on over that to go to the beach. And then I think about it after that.
Andrea: Right.
Breid: No. I’d be saying keep your breeches on. Definitely. You don’t want to be eating your sandwiches and your sausage rolls and see men going around with all the dangly bits and women going around with all the floppy bits. And, you know, and then if you have to go the loo, I mean, can you no. You have to bring your toilet rolls with you. Not a good picture. You know, on a nice day for the beach, no big deal to keep that bit of clothes on and go for a swim.
Andrea: You’re not a fan of the idea?
Breid: No. Definitely not.
Andrea: I’ve never been to a nudist beach. I know sometimes, like, in holidays, you might often see see them, but I’ve never actually been to one.
Breid: Now I remember years ago, we were out at, near Drogheda, and there was men at a caravan, and they were all after coming in, and they were all walking around nude. It definitely didn’t put us with the kids with us. Definitely put me off. You don’t know?
Andrea: You’re not a fan of it anyway.
Breid: You can keep your bits covered.
Andrea: Right. Dominic, what about you?
Domenic: It’s not something I personally have an issue with, in that, like, obviously, we all have bodies and, okay, they vary considerably in condition, mine included. But personally, I mean, I can’t say I have an issue with it. I can see why people do. And why they wouldn’t be that comfortable. It’s probably not something I wouldn’t I wouldn’t go to a nudist beach by choice, probably.
Andrea: Would you be offended
Domenic: by this? No. I’m not offended by it. And if I saw someone nude, I’d be like, oh, okay. I’d be quite surprised, to be honest, in this country to see anybody in the nude. But then again, having not been to a specifically nudist beach, maybe that’s not really a surprise.
Andrea: You see, I think I’m probably in the same camp as yourself on this because I haven’t been to one, but yet I have no desire to go to one. But I’m not offended for the sake of being offended about it either. I mean, more power to you if you want to go, go, like, I just won’t
Domenic: Exactly. I mean, I don’t have a problem with people going. I mean, you know, if that’s what you wanna do, that’s grand. I mean, if you’ve got, if we have the weather to actually enable you to go in this country, then go for it. After all, there’s most of the year I really wouldn’t want to be anywhere near a beach, let alone nude.
Andrea: But does that come back? I mean, the point was made a little earlier, that it’s to do with hang ups that we have, societal hang ups in this country. Like, why why do we in Ireland not embrace nudist beaches as much as other Europeans?
Domenic: I know. Because having been, when I was younger, in France, regularly enough on in summer in the summer. And you would see girls topless on the beach, like, regularly. And it was like, oh, okay. You know, whatever. But you to see that here would be like, oh my god. Really? Do you know? Yes. Is it because we’re kind of somewhat prudish in this country?
Andrea: Well, I wonder that. Is is that, you know, that’s
Domenic: And I mean, but what is that? You you wonder what it stems from. Is it is it kind of some Catholic guilty background that we seem to indulge in or or what? Because you wonder, how was it always something that we had issues with?
Andrea: But you’re not if there was if there was calls for, more beaches to become more, you know, popular as nudist beaches, you sir you’re not gonna be protesting about it anyway?
Domenic: Oh, god. No. No. True. I mean, let’s be honest. I’m not personally someone who goes to the beach very often anyway, because I’m not a big lover of, kind of, swimming and definitely not a big lover of sitting on a beach. So, probably I don’t have an issue with it. I mean, I have friends who do the kind of you know the, swimming in the nip fraternity thing?
Andrea: Yes.
Domenic: There’s a few of them now. And a friend of mine, she regularly goes I think she goes does it every year now. Does the thing in the nip or whatever it’s called. Dip in the nip.
Andrea: Dip in the nip. Yeah.
Domenic: Dip in the nip. That’s the one. She regularly does that. Oh, yeah. Why not?
Andrea: Yeah. But is that somewhat different in the sense that typically is that not usually all was women or all was men?
Domenic: Yes. They’re mainly women. Let’s be honest. In fact, they’re all girls who go to that one. Then I yeah. No. I think it’s only women who do that one. I don’t know if there’s any mixed gender one.
Andrea: Maybe not for the charity organizations, but the beaches certainly are. I mean, as Stephen and Kate pointed out in the first part of the show, Kevin is on the line or no. Oh, sorry. Kevin is texting, I should say. He says, I would guess the people who are against nudists beaches are also against women breastfeeding in public, according to Kevin. Another listener, just make sure that the nudists apply factor 50 before they’re on the beach, because nobody wants to see no nobody wants to see some, some mild lad rubbing sun cream onto their dangly bits in front of an audience. There’s the view of another texter today. This listener, complete mad stuff on nudity, typical. The minority shouting the loudest, imposing their values on everybody. This is one listener, another texter, I was in a park in Berlin where there was a couple of 100 people lying in the sun, a small number of men and women chilling in the nude. Nobody batted an eyelid at them. Nobody cared less. Mark in Wexford, he’s got in touch. He says, nudist beaches, it’s jealousy. Jealousy is a terrible thing. Another listener, people that are so easily offended should advocate for prudish beaches. That way they could all be happily prudish together. I don’t know. Is it like, I don’t know if it’s as extreme, Dominic, to say that just because you you don’t go to the nudist beach that you’re a total prude. I don’t know if that’s the
Domenic: No. No. No. No. But I mean personal preference is fine. But I don’t think that’s the issue. It’s about people saying, oh, well, they shouldn’t be nudist beaches. Or what are they saying in the UK? They want to ban
Andrea: There was a discussion you see on on on Great Morning Britain, because a naturist in the UK appeared on the show Naked to discuss whether nude sunbathing should should be made illegal. And that’s really where, I suppose, a lot of the discussion online has has kinda stemmed from. But I have to say there’s a couple like, the majority of the texts here today from people, very much embracing the idea of nudist beaches and people wondering why we don’t have more of them.

Lunchtime live with Andrea Gilligan, weekdays at midday on News Talk.