Pat Gallagher on Clare FM – 9th June 2016

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Gavin: You’re welcome back. As we tell you this morning, Clare County Council is being called on to consider designating one of our beaches as a clothing optional amenity. The North Clare Naturists and their umbrella group, the Irish Naturist Association, say the way has been paved for such a designation and that there are already unofficial naturist beaches in this county. The national organization is in the process of approaching local authorities with a view to convincing them of the merits of the clothing optional option. And the president of the Irish Naturist Association is Pat Gallagher. Pat, good morning.

Pat: Good morning, Gavin. Thank you

Gavin: very much for joining us. We’ll talk about your campaign for the want of a better term in a couple of minutes time. But tell me about the Irish Naturist Association. Are there many in the group?

Pat: Yeah. We, cater for, signed up members on any year somewhere between 200 and 500. But, you know, over the years, we know that there’s maybe 5000 to 10000 people Irish people who generally have went through our books and who take foreign holidays and even own property in nature sites abroad and so on. You know? So but we’re just the umbrella organization who campaign on their behalf.

Gavin: And what’s the fascination? Why do this?

Pat: Well, there’s no fascination. It’s just simple lifestyle, I suppose. Just something people evolve into and they realize that this is just a a pleasant lifestyle and a nice free and easy lifestyle.

Gavin: But what’s pleasant or free and easy about it? I mean, I’m trying not to be skeptical here, but, you know, while we’ve got beautiful sunshine now. That’s the rarity in this country. For starters, you’d be cold.

Pat: Not necessarily. I mean, we do get a reasonable summer. And when the weather is fine we just say when the weather is fine. Most people, just head off either to the seaside, to the lakes, or whatever, to the mountains, and they go there just to enjoy the good weather and so on. Then most people probably strip down to a bikini or a small bathing trunks or something like that. We just go that little bit further. That’s really all that’s in it.

Gavin: And have you been doing it for long?

Pat: Yeah. I’ve been a naturist now since back in the seventies, when I discovered that I really never needed to wear this wet piece of clothing around me when I come out of the water when I used to swim down around Wexford, you know. So, yeah, I’m a long time around now doing this.

Gavin: And in my introduction, I was speaking of unofficial naturist beaches. There’s at least one in Clare I understand.

Pat: Well, I know for quite a number of years, there’s one up there near Killkey called Burns Cove, which had been used extensively, back in the eighties, for instance, I know, and the nineties, and I think it’s still being used. So and there are other areas around there up around Flagmount there – Lough Grainey. There’s a little lake there with a couple of little sandy beaches and then other beaches at least has been over the years, you know.

Gavin: And is that, is that actually legal?

Pat: Well, funny enough, at the moment it is because the laws were changed in 2015 late 2015, the second laws due to, one of the laws being stricken out in 2014 in an appeal court. So we have an up to date copy of the legal situation from the minister. And, basically, you’re only committing an offense, while being nude if it is intended to cause distress, alarm, or fear. That’s the exact wording on the document. And she also recommends that, it is a matter for local authorities, to designate areas. So, you know, in the past, some local authorities said, oh, we wouldn’t mind, but, we are unsure of the legal situation. And you might remember back in 2010, 2 councilors in Clare County Council proposed the idea of a nude beach. Brian Meade, and I forget the other lady’s name, and it was watered down to investigate legal situation. We’ve ever heard any more about that.

Gavin: But you think that now the door has been opened because of the change in laws?

Pat: Absolutely. That’s a fundamental change now, and it’s in writing from the the the minister for, Justice Law reform, and equality. So, you know, it is a fundamental change, and it does open the door. It closes the door on council saying we don’t understand the legal situation. It’s quite clear now at this stage, you know.

Gavin: So what do you want Clare County Council to do?

Pat: We’ll be writing to Clare County Council, and we will probably ask them to designate areas, possibly areas that are already being used for that. And then, just as a bit of fun, maybe I’m just thinking maybe when they build this great big wall down in Doonbeg, behind that wall could be a good spot, you know.

Gavin: Well, I wouldn’t be so sure that one. But then we’ll move on from that particular suggestion. But you said that when you were speaking of the law that, it’s an offense if you’re attending to cause alarm or distress.

Pat: Yes. It has to be proved in court that you are naked with the intention to cause distress, fear, or alarm. You have to have the intention to do that.

Gavin: But leaving the law aside. Okay? And just you could, by being naked on a beach in an area where other people don’t want to be naked, you could be causing distress for them. You could be causing upset for them.

Pat: You might be correct there. And, again, we do not want to go on the regular beach where most people, you know, go to. We ask for areas that are a little bit off the beaten track where the general population doesn’t go, and we asked the council to pull up a small sign going on to this beach that says, nude bathers may be seen beyond this point. Now anyone who would be offended by a naked person now need to go no further. And we’re not saying we want it exclusive. We’re just calling it clothing optional. Those who are not offended and who still want to remain in their swimsuits, we have no problem with that.

Gavin: Is this potentially encouraging deviance to come to areas such as that?

Pat: Well, you know, you can look at the rest of Europe and you can see where, you know, in Spain, France, Croatia, all around everywhere they have hundreds and hundreds of these naturist beaches where thousands and thousands of people are there at any time, and they don’t pull in what you call the deviant, you know.

Gavin: Or the perverts or whatever way you want to word it. You’re saying you’re confident that wouldn’t be an issue?

Pat: It wouldn’t be an issue at all. And, in fact, if the beaches are designated by the council and are quite legal in that respect, the naturists who are there will in fact kind of act as a sort of a police. If somebody is doing something they shouldn’t be doing, we can ask these people to leave the beach or we will call the guards.

Gavin: Okay. So the naturists is still active to police?

Pat: Exactly. As is done in the UK and so on. You know?

Gavin: I won’t make jokes about taking out your truncheon on them. In all seriousness, what would be the benefits for a particular area?

Pat: In fact, it would be probably good for an area because it has proved right across the continent that anywhere that these beaches have been designated, B&Bs have sprung up. Tourists go into these areas. These campsites have sprung up. Hotels. Lots of different, facilities, have sprung up in these areas. And, they they pull in a lot of tourism, you know. So, yeah, it has benefits from that point of view.

Gavin: But you said that you’re you’re a group of what? Was it up to 500 people?

Pat: Well, we’re part of an international organization, and, we’re in touch, and we attend meetings abroad and so on, you know, with nearly millions of European naturists. So, you know, and they write to us and they say, we don’t have to worry about where can we go, when we take a day out? We want to go is there a designated beach and we have to say no.

Gavin: So you think we’re losing out?

Pat: Of course, we are. Yeah.

Gavin: And and that there’s millions of people who do this?

Pat: There there’s lots and lots of people. Now we had a meeting here over the weekend down in Drumshambo in County Leitrim, and we had a weekend there, and we had the use of the facilities and so on while we were there. And we had guests there from the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland, and so on, you know. So, yeah, people are willing to travel.

Gavin: How many people were at that meeting?

Pat: We had, about, 50 to 60 were there at that time and about 10 from the UK. Okay.

Gavin: Ok, so it’s, in your view, a winner. But for a number of others, I would suggest they wouldn’t be so keen in this. Although, I will be fair and point out that when we told listeners earlier on in the program that you’ll be coming on, that we’d be talking about this, we have had a number of messages of support. But again, others of concern. What would you say to somebody who maybe lives near what you described as off the beaten track and doesn’t fancy having this in their doorstep?

Pat: It, you know, it really will cause no harm to anybody whatsoever. And, you know, as I said, if it will offend you for whatever reason. Why anyone would be offended by nakedness. I really don’t know. But if you are, if it’s signposted and it’s not your regular Sunday afternoon beach where everybody goes, then it shouldn’t be a problem, you know.

Gavin: If it could be if that is your local beach where you go on a Sunday afternoon, though?

Pat: Yes. In fact, yeah. I go, to beaches here not too far from where I live. But, again, it’s a beach at the other end where the regular people don’t drive their cars down to. You’ve gotta park. You’ve gotta walk. Most people want to drive onto the beach on a Sunday afternoon and live out of their car. We don’t, we have to obviously go a little bit further afield.

Gavin: Okay. Well, you’re not looking as you say then for something totally on one of the main thoroughfares, I suppose. And for example, you’ve already, I know, had talks, in Wexford with regards to to making a a beach there, clothing optional. You said that you’re going to write to to Clare County Council. How soon could all of this happen, Pat?

Pat: Well, in the next few weeks, we will be, pursuing this, to various other county councils, including Clare County Council. And at the moment, we’re following up one particular line where, it has been suggested that, a facility could be made available. So we’re following up on that first, and then we will move on from there.

Gavin: A facility in Clare?

Pat: No. We will eventually be looking for a facility in Clare. Yes.

Gavin: Okay.

Pat: But at the moment, we’re looking for one that’s down on the on the East Coast of Ireland, which has a certain amount of promise at the moment.

Gavin: Okay. Well, we’ll see what happens. We will particularly, keep an eye on what happens when you get in touch with the the council here. We might ask them to see if they want to say anything in advance to that. Peter is a naturist. He says there should be designated clothing optional beaches. He believes he haven’t moved forward from the era in which men and women are forced to sit separately at mass. So there’s some support for you, Pat?

Pat: Yeah. I’m sure there’s a lot of support because, you know, over the years, I’ve talked to many, many people. And those who, are not into it, say you know, I wouldn’t do it myself, but, you know, fair play to you, and you should have an area. And, you know, I think opinions have changed tremendously in Ireland. And, I would say a good, say, 80% of people, if they were asked this question, should there be nude beaches, I think they would say yes. Mightn’t be for me, but certainly, it should be there.

Gavin: Okay. We appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much for talking to us, Pat.

Pat: Okay, Gavin.

Gavin: I’ll be very much in touch. Thank you. That’s Pat Callagher there. He’s the president of the Irish Naturist Association. If you’re part of the 80% who he says supports or some the 20% that don’t, we’d love to hear from you, by the way. 086-1800-964.

We will be nipping over to Killaloe very shortly to hear what’s in store at the 4th Annual Chamber Music Festival there. Do stay tuned. We’ll have the winner for competition as well.

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